Question:
though this forum is mainly korean-based, i'm sure there are alot of vietnamese members here as well who can enlighten me on the vietnam war. i am not so much as interested in the facts - such things i can simply google - but more so on the emotional aspect of this war, its aftermath, and what has become of the vietnamese people.
in america, when we talk about the vietnam war, we think about hippies and debating about how american soldiers were drafted and wasted their lives over a war - a war that many americans protested against. but what about the south vietnamese soldiers? and the civilians who lived through it?
only recently i have found out about the massacre at my lai in which over 400 unarmed vietnamese civilians were brutally killed, and some even raped. in my history class, the teacher only mentioned this once, expressed this massacre merely in one single sentence on a worksheet. nothing was discussed.
and there are the buddhist monks who set themselves on fire, without murmuring a word, sat silently as their body was torched in flames - to sacrifice themselves in protest of the diem regime in which catholicism was enforced upon the country and such a religion whose principles focused on peace, buddhism, was to be terminated.
as a first generation viestnamese american, the vietnam war, in many ways, has shaped my life. it is something i hold personal but never spoke openly about, only until now. in my class, i am assigned to make an artistic book depicting a personal theme, and i couldn't think of anything more personal than a war that many may think they know about, but in truth, they have no idea. i want to use this book as one way to present to my peers where i've come from - a war-striken country whose struggles have helped me obtain freedom today.
in summary, tell me what you know of the vietnam war, and if your parents were refugees, tell me anything you have heard from your parents. i think i learn more hearing stories from other people rather than just reading text from a subjective history book.
Answer:
I'm not Viet and I heard about this war a few years back but didn't study it..In my opinion, since the Vietnam war brought so many pain to people would it be possible for the survivors/refugees to brush it aside and never bring it up esp in front of their kids etc etc?
Well, I wouldn't know but anyways, good luck on your project (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Answer:
I'm not Viet and I heard about this war a few years back but didn't study it..In my opinion, since the Vietnam war brought so many pain to people would it be possible for the survivors/refugees to brush it aside and never bring it up esp in front of their kids etc etc?
Well, I wouldn't know but anyways, good luck on your project (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
my dad is 1st lieutenent in the south vietnamese army, and when i asked him - he didn't tell me anything about the war. its too emotional for him. he still has bullet wounds - scars that remain on his body reminding him everyday of those times. he refuses to watch war movies. you get the jist.
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There're still some messy problems with people born--even really recently--with birth defects due to Agent Orange used by the U.S. military. I'd bet the affected families must not feel too kindly about it.
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Diem's sister-in-law is one evil witch, she sent guards to capture people(buddhism, etc) that opposed to her family, and lets tiger in the zoo eat the prisoner alive each night. This is why and some other reasons, Kenedy hired the Diem's generals to assessinated him and his brother, unfortunately the sister-in-law escaped to France with her daughter, which I hate it. He was a nice guy though, and his sister-in-law is cruel.
My mom went to school by taxi everyday during that time, mostly everything was cheap, but after he died, things start to gets expensive.
Even today, Vietnam's economy are still struggling because of communism, but Japan are improving in their own country, which is a good thing. North Korea rewarded themselves for $30,000 million dollars to set off the nuclear bomb of their bad behavior. Talking about the asian country disappointed me.
(Info. from answers.com)
Ngo Dinh Diem
(born Jan. 3, 1901, Quang Binh province, Viet. — died Nov. 2, 1963, Cho Lon, S.Viet.) President of South Vietnam (1955–63). Of noble birth, Diem was on friendly terms with the Vietnamese imperial family and served as Emperor Bao Dai's minister of the interior (1933), but he resigned when the French would not accept his legislative reforms. He turned down an invitation to join Ho Chi Minh's forces and lived in self-imposed exile until invited back in 1954 by Bao Dai to serve as prime minister of South Vietnam. In 1955 he ousted the emperor and made himself president. He refused to carry out elections mandated by the Geneva Accords of 1954, ruled autocratically, and showed preference to fellow Roman Catholics in an overwhelmingly Buddhist country. An unpopular leader, Diem was assassinated by his generals in 1963.
Answer:
I just know that my father was a cook, and his brother was killed by a landmine.
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another famous picture. the man on the right was shot in the head immediately after this photo was taken.
(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Nguyen.jpg)
My lai massacre - open at your discretion. dead women and children
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...ai_massacre.jpg
From what I read...
South Vietnamese didn't necessarily support the Diem government the US put into place in the south. He was westernized and Roman Catholic. He was out of touch with the people.
Cultural differences and ignorance between America and the Vietnamese were also a problem. Supposedly i read that its ok for men in Vietnam to hold hands and American soldiers thought that South Vietnamese men were gay and not good fighters. They never saw Viet Cong hold hands.
The US government didn't even have a war strategy for Vietnam.
There's a lot of things they don't teach in American schools. They don't even teach a lot of the atrocities America commited in the Philippine War or don't go into much detail, which is very similar to Vietnam and Iraq wars.
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Madame Nhu, the first lady of Vietnam at the time - is she associated with Diem? She commented with regard on the burning monks that she would clap hands at seeing another monk barbecue show. Viet_lanie, is she the same lady you are talking about? this lady seems really evil.....
yeah just like when it comes time to talk about hiroshima and the atomic bomb in history class, we spend about... lets say, 5 minutes at the most...
we built an atomic bomb... the end. i dont think the teacher care to mention how many civilians died... and in iraq, there are soldiers who have raped and killed women/family over there. there are many things people will never know.
Answer:
Madame Nhu, the first lady of Vietnam at the time - is she associated with Diem? She commented with regard on the burning monks that she would clap hands at seeing another monk barbecue show. Viet_lanie, is she the same lady you are talking about? this lady seems really evil.....
yeah just like when it comes time to talk about hiroshima and the atomic bomb in history class, we spend about... lets say, 5 minutes at the most...
we built an atomic bomb... the end. i dont think the teacher care to mention how many civilians died... and in iraq, there are soldiers who have raped and killed women/family over there. there are many things people will never know.
Her name was Tran Le Xuan.
About clapping hands while watching people suffers, reminded me of Saddam, he even had his own theater to see people being executed/tortured.
Estimately 3,500 american soilders had died in Iraq, there was one video on the news showing the Iraqi dissecting one or two american soilders while they were still alive, and a kid was laughing, such temptation in that country.
It was captured from distance by a journalist from France.
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has anyone seen the movie green dragon? there was a man in there that committed suicide after hearing 'north vietnam has captured south vietnam' on the radio. is he the general?
was there a vietnamese general who committed suicide? i can't seem to find this on google. but i've heard word of this before.
Answer:
you thought my lai was bad?
theres many more incidents just like that (including many that will probably remain untold), just as bad, its really sad
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...FORCE/110190168
another thing that really bothers me is the use of agent orange during the war
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3798581.stm
http://www.doublestandards.org/scott1.html
personally whenever i read about this war, i get goosebumps (literally), and it makes me think about all those dead civillians and all those people that died at sea afterwards.
Supposedly i read that its ok for men in Vietnam to hold hands and American soldiers thought that South Vietnamese men were gay and not good fighters. They never saw Viet Cong hold hands.
LOLL ...im not sure if what you read is true,
well im viet and ive never heard of straight men holding hands in our country (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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yes, i found it! i asked my dad and he finally gave me some answers. he told me about the five generals who committed suicide shortly after viet cong forces captured saigon.
read more here, if you're interested: http://www.vietmemorial.org/myweb/the%20sucides.htm
i learned so much today. i never really understood the vietnam war much until now. and i still have much more to learn
Answer:
you thought my lai was bad?
theres many more incidents just like that (including many that will probably remain untold), just as bad, its really sad
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...FORCE/110190168
another thing that really bothers me is the use of agent orange during the war
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3798581.stm
http://www.doublestandards.org/scott1.html
personally whenever i read about this war, i get goosebumps (literally), and it makes me think about all those dead civillians and all those people that died at sea afterwards.
LOLL ...im not sure if what you read is true,
well im viet and ive never heard of straight men holding hands in our country (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
The (secondary) source:
God's Country and American Know-How (1986) by Historian Loren Baritz from Backfire: A History of How American Culture Led US into Vietnam and Made Us Fight the Way We Did.
Here's the excerpt...
Two Vietnamese soldiers would walk down the street holding hands. An American marine from south Boston noticed this custom: They all hold hands, see. I ***king hate that. The intensity of this marine's reaction was characteristic of America's fighting men. The custom proved to the GIs that South Vietnamese men were homosexuals, and this diagnosis explained why the Vietnamese were incompetant warriors, raising the question about why Americans had to die in defense of perverts...
Answer:
I'm Vietnamese and I have to say that the Vietnam War was a total disaster for the Americans but they should have kept at it. Most South Vietnamese would have preferred for them to keep fighting. Sure, My Lai was bad, but nothing compared to what the NVA and Viet Cong did. At least we learn from our mistakes and are applying it to Iraq now.
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i never knew about agent orange's effects and how it is linked to birth defects. thanks for sharing. these are really interesting information.
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^^ i'll have to disagree with you lqqkitzti.
America had the odds against it fighting that war.
No war strategy (LBJ even had doubts sending troops), no mass support of the South Vietnamese, cultural ignorance, anti-war movements, incompetent leaders/soldiers in both the American and South Vietnamese armies...America thought that victory in Vietnam could be won by having a high body count. However as Ho Chi Minh said “You can kill ten of my men for every one I kill of yours, but even at those odds, you will lose and I will win.”
To find out more read... A Bright Shining Lie - John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam by Neil Sheehan. It's a good read!
Answer:
yes its true. the south vietnamese army was very weak in comparison, and so were alot of the american soldiers. most were drafted. these were young men who weren't sure why they were there. their mentality was questionable, and these are some of the chief reasons north vietnam won the war. =/
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I think that a majority of the South Vietnamese didn't really care or knew what the heck communism or democracy is.
All they cared about at the end of the day was staying alive, peace, and enough rice to feed their families.
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yes the US came in and basically setted up a propaganda that led the vietnamese to oppose communism.
on another note, major. dang si vinh wrote in his note before commiting suicide along with his wife and seven children on april 30, 1975 (the day viet cong captured saigon):
dear neighbors,
forgive us. because our family would not live under the communist regime, we have to end our lives this way that might be bothering you. please inform my only sibling, a sister, and use this money to help her bury us anywhere.
thank you.
i felt this was quite honorible despite it being a suicide
Answer:
*sigh*
The Vietnam war.
The fall of Saigon.
Here goes a lot of rambling lol.
If I'm wrong anywhere, please correct me.
This is just some stuff I've learnt over the years from family/documentaries/etc...
All my family came from VN... boat people. My mum hasn't told me all the stories, because she doesn't want to think about them.
My uncle tried to escape twice (second time lucky), the first time, pirates looted the boats and raped the women.
If the VC catch you trying to escape...
My mum's neighbour tried to escape, but was caught. The VC kept him for a while, and when they released him... he's troubled. He hasn't been himself for 20+ years. They say he was tortured or something, and he went crazy.
When I met him, he seemed like a little child, although he was 40+. It was really sad.
And it cost you EVERYTHING to get on those boats.
Before '75, my mum's family was HELLA rich. But after the VietCong came in... they were only allowed to do business between certain hours, so there was a black market for food. My mum's told stories of waking at 2AM, going to sell food, almost getting caught by the freaking VC.
My dad always says, if the foreign troops hadn't been withdrawn, Saigon wouldn't have been lost.
Whether this is true or not, I don't know.
This is something sort of relevant;
My mum's best friend was really vocal in our local community with the release of political prisoner Ly Tong, and she actually got a phone call (it was on posters for fundraiser info) from a man, who basically threatened her and her family, telling her to stop doing meddling in this business. O_O.
^ The VC have supporters in Australia (and most probably everywhere) that keep an eye on who's doing what outside of VietNam.
They say, if you're too vocal, and they (the VC supporters) 'notice' you, if you go back to VietNam, the VC will keep an eye on you. And find a way to keep you there. O_O.
Have you heard of Nguyen Dinh Huy? He has only spent 21 months outside of a prison since '75. He was a journalist, and a pro-democratic supporter.
Some people can NEVER go back to their home country, in fear of 'punishment' by the VC.
SBS, an Australian channel, they have all the international news and etc. They showed HaNoi's news broadcast once a week, and the backlash was severe. People were PISSED, because all it was was proproganda, and they eventually took it off air.
When I went back to VietNam, my mum was saying it was a lot better now than, say, 20 years ago. People are rich, they can have businesses, and people can now choose what religion they want, within reason.
Whilst I was there though, I think it was by letter or something, and I don't know what was the occasion, but ALL HOUSEHOLDS/BUSINESS were to put the flag up.
Almost all the houses I went to, had pictures of HoChiMinh somewhere.
The taxi drivers, some of them called the VC dogs. Others said to my parents why would want to leave VietNam (ie pro-Communism).
You have to be careful, IMO, what you say, and to whom you say it.
Have you heard stories of refugees, who for example, made it to Singapore. But by the time they made it to Singapore, no more countries would be accepting refugees. (This is in the late '80s, early '90s...)
These people are then deported back to VietNam.
I've seen videos, and it scares the crap out of me.
These people burn themselves to death, kill themselves in anyway, they just don't want to go back to VietNam.
'Cause when they get back to VietNam, the VC aren't gonna welcome them back with open arms.
