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http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=.../20/287396.html
Mon Dec 19, 10:08 PM
BEIJING - China sharply raised the official size of its economy Tuesday after taking into account emerging service industries, saying its output last year was 16.8 percent higher than previously reported.
The new figures mean China's mainland overtook Italy as the world's 6th-largest economy in 2004, behind France and the United Kingdom. China would jump to No. 4, after only the United States, Japan and Germany, if it included Hong Kong, a Chinese territory that reports its economic figures separately.
The data could have far-reaching effects on economic and social policymaking as Beijing tries to create new jobs for unemployed workers and plans investments.
The new Chinese output tally of 15.987 trillion yuan ($1.981 trillion) followed a survey meant to gather more accurate data on restaurants, retailers and other service businesses, which were underreported previously.
These new figures give us a clearer picture and a better way of understanding China's economy, Li Deshui, director of the National Bureau of Statistics, said at a news conference. Based on these figures, we can have even more confidence in our long-term fairly fast and sustained economic growth.
The new figures should not affect China's policy toward the politically sensitive exchange rate of its currency, Li said. China's trading partners complain that its government-controlled exchange rate is too low, giving Chinese exporters and unfair price advantage.
The government plans to revise growth figures back to 1993 for its gross domestic product, the widest measure of its output of goods and services, Li said.
Economists have long said China's already stunning official figures showing annual growth above 9 percent in recent years understate the size of its economy due to old-fashioned data that focused on manufacturing and undercounted services.
These new GDP data are a major improvement over the previous ones, Bert Hofman, the World Bank's chief economist in Beijing, said in a statement. Many policy issues that the government wants to tackle ... need reliable data for those issues to be assessed correctly.
Other governments have reported similarly large jumps in output when they change the way they measure their economies, including a 17 percent increase for Indonesia in 2004 and 11 percent for Norway in 1995, the World Bank statement said.
The new estimate of China's economic output in 2004 was an increase of 2.3 trillion yuan ($285 billion) over the figure previously reported, Li said.
Service industries' share of economic output jumped from 31.9 percent to 40.7 percent, Li said. He said the survey found smaller increases in output from manufacturing, farming and other economic sectors.
Economists say such a change could prompt Beijing to rethink plans to encourage laid-off workers to seek jobs in what it had thought were underdeveloped service industries.
Despite the sharp upward revision of its gross domestic product, China still ranks below the top 100 countries in economic output per person, Li said.
We still have a long way to go to catch up with the developed countries, he said.
Li defended his agency's earlier data, saying they do not distort the size of the national economy and didn't mislead policy-makers.
It would still reflect the general level and the trend in economic development, he said. We still can have a good picture of the basic conditions in China and its development. There is no fundamental change of the overall picture.
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Im so serious
China will take over the world one day.
We still have a long way to go to catch up with the developed countries, he said.
so modest ahahahah
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^They do have quite a ways though, economy isn't everything.
As for taking over the world..yea most likely..haha
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^They do have quite a ways though, economy isn't everything.
As for taking over the world..yea most likely..haha
I think Range said it in some other thread that something could occur during those years of progression that might stall or slack China's economic growth, and Tamago's right about economy being not everything. China has a lot more to do such as increasing standard of living, environmental and health issues, and human rights.
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I think Range said it in some other thread that something could occur during those years of progression that might stall or slack China's economic growth, and Tamago's right about economy being not everything. China has a lot more to do such as increasing standard of living, environmental and health issues, and human rights.
Yah
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Think of the UK, US, and France. All developed countries. China is not even close to being a developed Nation. It will take a long time for them to catch up to us, and it costs money to develop (create schools, malls, apartment complexes, hospitals, police stations, sewers, paved roads, paved sidewalks, easily accessible water supply, accurate and efficient postage system & address system. Is this rapid growth even sustainable? I don't think so, with the prices of oil it might become cheaper to buy domestically made goods because they won't have to travel such long distances. Also it would be difficult running plants with fuel costs becoming so high. And China is not only selling their labor extremely cheaply, their selling/using up resources for less than they're worth. This will catch up to them. I think people are overvaluing the strength of an OldNavy Clothing/COBY Electronic producing economy. And most of the Highly educated from China are going to the states and other western nations if I'm not mistaken.
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I think Range said it in some other thread that something could occur during those years of progression that might stall or slack China's economic growth, and Tamago's right about economy being not everything. China has a lot more to do such as increasing standard of living, environmental and health issues, and human rights.
basically the other thread stated it could be the top economy by 2050..however I argued that 2050 is a long time and many things can happen. In general, I'm not too fond of jumping on predictions that long term although i wouldn't totally dismiss them either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Think of the UK, US, and France. All developed countries. China is not even close to being a developed Nation. It will take a long time for them to catch up to us, and it costs money to develop (create schools, malls, apartment complexes, hospitals, police stations, sewers, paved roads, paved sidewalks, easily accessible water supply, accurate and efficient postage system & address system. Is this rapid growth even sustainable? I don't think so, with the prices of oil it might become cheaper to buy domestically made goods because they won't have to travel such long distances. Also it would be difficult running plants with fuel costs becoming so high. And China is not only selling their labor extremely cheaply, their selling/using up resources for less than they're worth. This will catch up to them. I think people are overvaluing the strength of an OldNavy Clothing/COBY Electronic producing economy. And most of the Highly educated from China are going to the states and other western nations if I'm not mistaken.
yeah, there's alot of strong economies countries in the world (Mexico, Turkey, China, India) but it doesn't necessarily reflect per capita income and development.. but that's what the guy in the article says.. China still has a long way to go. From my experience.. their development is very uneven.. the cities have loads of apartment complexs, hospitals, definitely ALOT of police, paved roads malls, postal systems, etc that you mentioned. Infact most of the coast does. but it gets less and less so as you go further west, with perhaps Urumqi being an oasis in an otherwise, under developed western region. It's why they have over 70 million migrant workers from the poorer provinces willing to work for low wages. And it's another reason why globalization will work to the US's disadvantage as Chinese industries become more sophisticated. Free trade advocates should think about potential long term effects.
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He's right, in the east or coastal areas there are developed, buildings, streets , malls etc. If you go further west its undeveloped.
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^They do have quite a ways though, economy isn't everything.
As for taking over the world..yea most likely..haha
Indeed. But as you can see, the government's slowly turning to democracy, seeing that it actually works. It would take awhile to become a developed country, but they have sped up the pace quickly... Especially if they continue to use various technologies and borrow ideas.
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Indeed. But as you can see, the government's slowly turning to democracy, seeing that it actually works. It would take awhile to become a developed country, but they have sped up the pace quickly... Especially if they continue to use various technologies and borrow ideas.
no, it slowly turned to capitalism, not a democracy. Often people get the two mixed up. Singapore is a successful state that's hardly democratic, but very capitalist. heck many of the East Asian states were like that and many are still.
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Indeed. But as you can see, the government's slowly turning to democracy, seeing that it actually works. It would take awhile to become a developed country, but they have sped up the pace quickly... Especially if they continue to use various technologies and borrow ideas.
..By borrow do you mean steal? China has the most intellectual property violations of any country in the world. Some major companies are even afraid of hiring overseas Chinese in certain positions because they're afraid that the workers will be coaxed by the Chinese government (or Chinese companies themselves) into selling various information to separate Chinese corporations. This is pretty obvious though when you go to China and you see places like Starbuck (with no S) or Blockbruster.
Anyways, yes China may be communist in theory (and in theory communism actually works) but in reality they're more of a failed modified democracy in limbo (whatever that means). I think it'd be better for China to just take their time and smooth out all it's edges before rushing for the title of superpower, but then again I doubt there's a country in history that has heeded that advice.
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Go china!!
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Go china!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) When you say Go China! do you mean that you like how workers are being exploited to benefit the wealthy and people with connections? do you mean you support the corrupt government? or is it just something you say because you're chinese/asian and you want chinese/asians to succeed?
Some of you that think you're rooting for the 'home team' need to realize that your families had to escape extreme poverty, religious discrimination, and abuses of government to go to whatever ENGLISH speaking country you live in. And these western countries gladly opened their doors to you all. I may be a Greek-Dominican-Spaniard, but if there were ever a war where Greece, Spain and the Dominican Republic were versus the United States, I would support the United States because it supports me and protects my freedom. Other countries don't have to garuntee your freedom just because your parents or grandparents were born there.
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) When you say Go China! do you mean that you like how workers are being exploited to benefit the wealthy and people with connections? do you mean you support the corrupt government? or is it just something you say because you're chinese/asian and you want chinese/asians to succeed?.
*Sigh* We mean we like the betterment of all of China and all of Asia. We see China going forward, at a fairly rapid pace, and not backwards. The government may be corrupt, and workers exploited, but at least it seems like this kind of thing is lessening and we are slowly moving towards democracy and a more open country. Would you rather all this be eradicated at once, and us become democratic like Russia? It didn't quite work the way people wanted it to, and people in China saw that. And China's even harder to control since it's population is so great. The criticisms on China are valid, but not really realistic. How do you suppose we fix all of this at once?
Also, your analogy using yourself is faulty. First of all, you are mixed from three different places, which means that you don't really have one place to feel patriotism for. Your nationalism is spread out. Of course you are going to choose the US if it comes down too it, especially since of those three places, it's the only one on the global stage with any sort of real power, and who doesn't want to be associated with a place of consequence rather than places without?
Second, you don't look Asian. People don't label you as a foreigner when looking at you. People in the US don't see Asians as American. They don't even see us as Chinese-American, even when we speak without accent. They just think Chinese, and that's it. It's quite alienating. Everytime you want to feel patriotism, and someone asks, where are you from? you feel that patriotism for the US ebbing.
Thirdly, you really shouldn't use the situation of war, because this is not about war. Nobody said they'd be happy if the two countries started fighting and China won. No, ichigo_no_powder never said anything about competition about the US. You just took it that way, because you think everyone who wants China to succeed wants the US to fail. I just want China to improve economically so people can be lifted from abject poverty that they suffered so many years ago through invasion, foreign intervention, and the ridiculousness of Maoist ideas. Why wouldn't you want 1.5 billion people to be removed from poverty if it is possible?
P.S. Shouldn't this thread be closed since this was already posted by Dafleur?
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*Sigh* We mean we like the betterment of all of China and all of Asia. We see China going forward, at a fairly rapid pace, and not backwards. The government may be corrupt, and workers exploited, but at least it seems like this kind of thing is lessening and we are slowly moving towards democracy and a more open country. Would you rather all this be eradicated at once, and us become democratic like Russia? It didn't quite work the way people wanted it to, and people in China saw that. And China's even harder to control since it's population is so great. The criticisms on China are valid, but not really realistic. How do you suppose we fix all of this at once?
Also, your analogy using yourself is faulty. First of all, you are mixed from three different places, which means that you don't really have one place to feel patriotism for. Your nationalism is spread out. Of course you are going to choose the US if it comes down too it, especially since of those three places, it's the only one on the global stage with any sort of real power, and who doesn't want to be associated with a place of consequence rather than places without?
Second, you don't look Asian. People don't label you as a foreigner when looking at you. People in the US don't see Asians as American. They don't even see us as Chinese-American, even when we speak without accent. They just think Chinese, and that's it. It's quite alienating. Everytime you want to feel patriotism, and someone asks, where are you from? you feel that patriotism for the US ebbing.
Thirdly, you really shouldn't use the situation of war, because this is not about war. Nobody said they'd be happy if the two countries started fighting and China won. No, ichigo_no_powder never said anything about competition about the US. You just took it that way, because you think everyone who wants China to succeed wants the US to fail. I just want China to improve economically so people can be lifted from abject poverty that they suffered so many years ago through invasion, foreign intervention, and the ridiculousness of Maoist ideas. Why wouldn't you want 1.5 billion people to be removed from poverty if it is possible?
P.S. Shouldn't this thread be closed since this was already posted by Dafleur?
Betterment won't happen for that 1.5 billion because of the government, how is the government moving towards a democracy? Was that little incident a decade ago already forgotten? Labeling yourself Chinese-American is retarded unless you were born in China and moved to the US. Thats why some of my friends find the term African-American offensive because its as though to say that they aren't American. How about calling yourself American when somebody asks what are you? Maybe you'd get a little more acceptance that way. I don't know what magical world you live in where all European immigrant groups were treated nicely and like Americans. The KKK targets catholics, hispanics, as well as blacks. The image of an American changes every few years, do you expect complete acceptance considering Asians are relatively recent immigrants. Shes rooting for China in particular, why not just root for the betterment of humanity? The decrease in poverty? Shes not saying yes! less poor people. Read what she wrote. Are you her spokesman? I've seen her posts from other threads, so I assume a lot about her character.
You just took it that way, because you think everyone who wants China to succeed wants the US to fail.
Thats just the way you took it.
First of all, you are mixed from three different places, which means that you don't really have one place to feel patriotism for
I do have one place, its called the United States.
How do you suppose we fix all of this at once?
I'm not a political scientist.
Your nationalism is spread out.
Nope, its all going towards the US.
Of course you are going to choose the US if it comes down too it, especially since of those three places, it's the only one on the global stage with any sort of real power, and who doesn't want to be associated with a place of consequence rather than places without?
I can have pride in my heritage, but it definately does not become before my nation.
I just want China to improve economically so people can be lifted from abject poverty that they suffered so many years ago through invasion, foreign intervention, and the ridiculousness of Maoist ideas. Why wouldn't you want 1.5 billion people to be removed from poverty if it is possible?
Who said I didn't?
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And these western countries gladly opened their doors to you all.
I quite agree with all that you said except that statement and your one-sided perspective of U.S. Yes, countries like U.S did allow refugees and victims from wars to enter but they are far from doing so gladly.
The main reason why U.S allowed immagration in the first place was because they needed them to be the low payed workers. Most Americans wouldn't want those kind of jobs so who is to take them but those foreigners who knew nothing and wanted nothing other than shelter and food. When the first Chinese pioneers came here decades ago they were the one being exploited and treated unjustedly. There are millions of cases were foreign settlers were being mistreated across the nation, but I'm sure you haven't heard much about those have you? Whatever Asians wanted to accomplish they have to work twice as hard. And when the Chinese seemed to have started to gain some success in the U.S from the seed of their toiled labor the government decided to limit the amount of immagration. Why is that you think?
U.S and many western countries that you said gladly opened their doors opened it for a purpose. U.S wouldn't be seen as the world leader anymore if they didn't help those who needed help. And upon U.S soil there's still a strong racist barrier that prevent those immagrants from ever going too far.
And every form of government have their own brutality, some less noticable. Did you not know what the U.S have done to the Native Americans who have lived here even before the first colonial settler's set foot upon this land and through what did the U.S do to established this land. Upon the Mexican War the Mexicans responses were so close to U.S, yet so far from God given a rough idea of what it was like for the Mexicans. Did you know U.S was one of the last country to end slavery? And after the end of slavery was the African-Americans' right secured or did people like Dr. Martin Luther King have to fight for it with their lives?
Sorry for being so off topic, but I just wanted to point out decriminations and poverties are everywhere in the world, just some countries are more serious and more visible than others. U.S and some of these western countries aren't as great as you think and you'll be surprise if you haven't already on some of the things they've done. What U.S have given you as an individual can not paint a picture of its complexity.
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) When you say Go China! do you mean that you like how workers are being exploited to benefit the wealthy and people with connections? do you mean you support the corrupt government? or is it just something you say because you're chinese/asian and you want chinese/asians to succeed?
Some of you that think you're rooting for the 'home team' need to realize that your families had to escape extreme poverty, religious discrimination, and abuses of government to go to whatever ENGLISH speaking country you live in. And these western countries gladly opened their doors to you all. I may be a Greek-Dominican-Spaniard, but if there were ever a war where Greece, Spain and the Dominican Republic were versus the United States, I would support the United States because it supports me and protects my freedom. Other countries don't have to garuntee your freedom just because your parents or grandparents were born there.
I am saying this mainly because I will always support my home country. Even if they are wrong, I won't fight for them but I will never fight against them.
Also, relgious descrimination, abuses of government and extreme poverty occurs in every country, not only China. And because this the news is saying something positive, I'm don't understand why people have to still put China down by saying negative things. If China is growing economic wise, then how is that a bad thing?
because you're chinese/asian and you want chinese/asians to succeed?
Yes I admit it it i'm happy if other chinese/asians succeed. what's wrong with that?
do you mean you support the corrupt government?
I never once said I support the government because I don't. However, they have been making a lot of positive changes, is growing as a country and that I do support.
need to realize that your families had to escape extreme poverty, religious discrimination, and abuses of government to go to whatever ENGLISH speaking country you live in.
Why must you make it sound as if our home countries are so terrible and that we are so fortunate that western countries were generous enough to open up their arms and rescue us poor refugees? My family did not have to escape from any of those
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thanks jacinda
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I am saying this mainly because I will always support my home country. Even if they are wrong, I won't fight for them but I will never fight against them.
Theres a difference between feeling a cultural connection with a home country, and supporting a government(by supporting the country). Anyway why do you call it your home country, do you live there? Is your home there? Are you protected there? Does the country provide for you?
Also, relgious descrimination, abuses of government and extreme poverty occurs in every country, not only China. And because this the news is saying something positive, I'm don't understand why people have to still put China down by saying negative things. If China is growing economic wise, then how is that a bad thing?
Do the ends justify the means? Did this growth really have to involve the exploitation of people for cheap consumer goods? I'm not saying growth isn't good, but think about all the people that had to struggle for this little bit of growth that the already-wealthy and government-connected are benefiting from.
Yes I admit it it i'm happy if other chinese/asians succeed. what's wrong with that?
If you dont see whats wrong with that I don't have time to help you.
I never once said I support the government because I don't. However, they have been making a lot of positive changes, is growing as a country and that I do support.
You support China, China is a nation, a nation run by the corrupt government. You should've have said something about how glad you were that maybe theres a chance that there will be less extreme poverty in the world.
Why must you make it sound as if our home countries are so terrible and that we are so fortunate that western countries were generous enough to open up their arms and rescue us poor refugees? My family did not have to escape from any of those
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So if your family didn't really need to come here why did they? They should've stayed in China because its soo great. Immigration is almost never the result of something positive.
thanks jacinda
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what's wrong with you STEPHEN? why are u bullying ichigo_no_powder, and stalking her?
I've seen her posts from other threads, so I assume a lot about her character.
wow, good for you that u found something to argue against her, you stalker!
Are you going to say that I'm only assuming that your a stalker? Well, you were assuming all this stuff:
When you say Go China! do you mean that you like how workers are being exploited to benefit the wealthy and people with connections? do you mean you support the corrupt government? or is it just something you say because you're chinese/asian and you want chinese/asians to succeed?
It annoys me how you think your so great by putting down other countries. Only an immature little girl would do that. I ASSUME that your a fully grown man STEPHEN? Well, if you are then grow up.
I understand your patriotism for US, however keep it to yourself. This isn't a thread for you to show your nationalism, your going off topic.
I'm ASSUMING that you're going to bash me after you read this post. I can already assume what rebuts your going to use, so don't expect me to come back here to rebut against you.
Oh, and lastly I AM a spokesperson for ichigo_no_powder.
Can't stand bullies and stalkers.
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you guys are starting to get personal with this. Please calm down.
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what's wrong with you STEPHEN? why are u bullying ichigo_no_powder, and stalking her?
I've seen her posts from other threads, so I assume a lot about her character.
wow, good for you that u found something to argue against her, you stalker!
Are you going to say that I'm only assuming that your a stalker? Well, you were assuming all this stuff:
When you say Go China! do you mean that you like how workers are being exploited to benefit the wealthy and people with connections? do you mean you support the corrupt government? or is it just something you say because you're chinese/asian and you want chinese/asians to succeed?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Yes, I'm stalking a girl on the board. I just love me some Asian girls~ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
It annoys me how you think your so great by putting down other countries. Only an immature little girl would do that. I ASSUME that your a fully grown man STEPHEN? Well, if you are then grow up.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) You're bad at this.
I understand your patriotism for US, however keep it to yourself. This isn't a thread for you to show your nationalism, your going off topic.
Was I not supposed to respond at all? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
I'm ASSUMING that you're going to bash me after you read this post. I can already assume what rebuts your going to use, so don't expect me to come back here to rebut against you.
Oh, and lastly I AM a spokesperson for ichigo_no_powder.
Can't stand bullies and stalkers.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I am far from a bully or a stalker.
