Question:
Big Security Council Members Agree on Iran
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060116/ap_on_...wN5bnN1YmNhdA--
By BETH GARDINER, Associated Press Writer Mon Jan 16, 6:48 PM ET
LONDON - Moscow and Beijing joined the U.S. and its European allies in demanding Monday that
Iran fully suspend its nuclear program, while Vladimir Putin held out hope for a compromise, saying Tehran might agree to move its uranium enrichment program to Russia.
China, Russia, France, the United States, Germany, and Britain expressed serious concerns about Iran's resumption of small-scale uranium enrichment, Britain's Foreign Office said.
The powers stopped short of referring the issue to the U.N. Security Council, which could impose sanctions, instead calling for an emergency board meeting of the International Atomic Energy on Feb. 2-3 to discuss the issue. The 35-nation IAEA board could itself refer the issue to the Security Council.
The stepped up diplomatic activity came nearly a week after Iran removed U.N. seals at its main uranium enrichment plant and resumed research on nuclear fuel after a two-year hiatus.
The move alarmed the West, which fears Iran intends to build an atomic bomb. Iran claims its program is peaceful, intended only to produce electricity and it has threatened to end all cooperation the U.N. nuclear watchdog if it is brought before the Security Council.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Sunday that she wants a vote as soon as possible on whether to refer Iran to the council and is working to line up support.
We've got to finally demonstrate to Iran that it can't with impunity just cast aside the just demands of the international community, Rice said while traveling in Africa.
The Russian president suggested there might still be hope of avoiding that path, saying Iran has not ruled out conducting its uranium enrichment in Russia, which would allow for close oversight.
In Moscow, Putin said the Iranians had indicated they did not exclude the implementation of our proposal.
In any case, it's necessary to work carefully and avoid any erroneous moves, he added.
Iran's ambassador to Moscow praised the idea.
This is a good initiative to resolve the situation. We believe that Iran and Russia should find a way out of this jointly, Gholamreza Ansari said in comments translated into Russian and shown on state Channel One television.
The U.S. and the Europeans need support from Russia and China for referral because they have veto power in the Security Council.
Russia and China, which have close commercial ties with Iran, have resisted referral but also have shown increasing impatience with Tehran's defiance.
The
European Union's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, said he believed the two would eventually agree to refer Iran to the Security Council.
I am confident. Otherwise, I will not be working as I am working, Solana said after meeting U.N. Secretary-General
Kofi Annan.
A spokesman for Britain's Foreign Office, speaking on condition of anonymity in keeping with government policy, said representatives of the six nations who met for seven hours in London agreed on the importance of Iran returning to the full suspension and negotiating process.
Putin said his proposal did not mean Russia's strategy differed from the one the Western powers are pursuing.
Russia, Germany, our European partners and the United States have very close positions on the Iranian problem, he said after meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.
China made no comment after the talks in London, but took a cautious tone earlier Monday.
All relevant sides should remain restrained and stick to solving the Iranian nuclear issue through negotiations, the Foreign Ministry in Beijing said in a statement.
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, who was not at the meeting, said after it ended that London also wanted Iran to return to talks.
What we hope is that as a result of this and other diplomatic pressure is that the Iranians will come back to the negotiating table ... and will recognize the good intent of the European three, he told Channel 4 news, referring to Britain, France and Germany, which negotiated with Tehran on behalf of the European Union for 2 1/2 tense years.
Straw said the onus is on Iran to prove its program is peaceful. He said the international community's confidence had been sorely undermined by a history of concealment and deception by the clerical regime.
In a related development, Iranian state radio reported Monday that the country had allocated the equivalent of $215 million for the construction of what would be its second and third nuclear power plants.
Economic sanctions targeting Iran's oil and gas exports are thought unlikely. Iran is OPEC's second-largest producer and preventing it from doing business could disrupt the world's energy markets.
Russian experts also are helping build a nuclear reactor at Bushehr in Iran. But Moscow has shown growing impatience with Tehran for not accepting its proposal to supply nuclear fuel for Iranian power stations.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said last week that the Kremlin has not ruled out backing Iran's referral to the Security Council, although it said previously it saw no need for such action.
___
Associated Press writers Henry Meyer in Moscow and Edith M. Lederer at the
United Nations contributed to this report.
Funny that I just find this as well:
Russian Cautions Against Iran Sanctions
By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer 28 minutes ago
MOSCOW - Russia's foreign minister said Tuesday that referring
Iran to the
U.N. Security Council for possible sanctions was not the best way to resolve the Iranian nuclear crisis, urging all nations involved to keep nonproliferation as their paramount goal.
The permanent members of the Security Council — the United States, Russia, France, Britain and China — agreed during a meeting in London on Monday that Iran must fully suspend its nuclear program, but differed over whether to refer the dispute for action by the council.
Russia and China have been under pressure from the United States and the
European Union to support a move to refer Iran to the Security Council as a result of its decision earlier this month to restart its nuclear program. The Western allies fear Iran intends to build an atomic bomb, and Iran's new hard-line president's sharp anti-Israeli comments recently have only fueled their anxiety.
Sanctions are not the best or the only way to solve international problems, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told a news conference Tuesday. Our common efforts should be aimed at getting answers to all the questions, without exception, which were posed by experts of the
International Atomic Energy Agency.
Lavrov said that raising the prospect of sanctions was tantamount to putting the cart before the horse.
Our common goal is to ensure the inviolability of the nuclear nonproliferation regime, he said. If we all strive for this main goal, we will be able to find a collective approach to solving this issue.
British Prime Minister
Tony Blair's official spokesman said Tuesday that Britain remains open to a negotiated solution that would avoid referring Iran to the Security Council. The spokesman said Iran would have to abide by its international obligations to make any deal acceptable.
Our ideal outcome is a diplomatic solution, the spokesman said on condition of anonymity in line with government policy. A diplomatic solution has to mean that Iran abides by its international obligations. That is the test. If someone, if Iran, wants to come up with a solution that meets that test, fine. It does have to meet that test.
Diplomats in London announced plans Monday for an emergency meeting of the IAEA board of directors on Feb. 2-3. The 35-member board of the U.N. nuclear watchdog has the power to refer the issue to the Security Council.
The Interfax news agency reported that the Iranian Embassy in Moscow had circulated an Iranian Foreign Ministry statement saying Tehran invited the EU to return to negotiations but that the emergency IAEA session could lead to a new impasse.
Iran has said it would not bend before the threat of sanctions.
Russian President
Vladimir Putin on Monday urged caution in dealing with the Iranian nuclear issue, saying Tehran might still agree to Moscow's offer to move Iran's uranium enrichment program to Russia — a step offered as a way to resolve the deadlock over Tehran's nuclear ambitions.
Iran's ambassador to Moscow, Gholamreza Ansari, said late Monday that Iran considered the proposal constructive and said Tehran was still considering it.
Israel planned to dispatch a top team to Russia on Tuesday in an attempt to get Russia to agree to refer Iran to the Security Council, the Haaretz newspaper reported on its Web site. The team would include National Security Chief Giora Eiland and the director of Israel's Atomic Energy Commission, Gideon Frank, Haaretz said.
China on Tuesday appealed for a negotiated settlement to the dispute, calling on Tehran to return to talks with Britain, France and Germany.
We hope Iran can coordinate with the international community so as to resume negotiations through diplomatic means, said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Kong Quan. All parties should keep patience and do all they can to restore the negotiations between Iran and the three European Union countries.
Kong didn't respond directly when asked whether Beijing wanted to see the matter referred to the Security Council. China, a major buyer of Iranian oil, said earlier that taking the dispute to the council could worsen tensions.
___
Associated Press Writer Beth Gardiner in London contributed to this report
Answer:
hmm didn't Khameini issue a fatwa over developing nuclear weapons in his country?
I think sanctions is as far as it can get when it comes to pressuring Iran. I don't think the US or the Western Europeans can do anymore.
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Wikipedia:
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a fatwa forbidding the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons on August 9, 2005. The full text of the fatwa was released in an official statement at the meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna. [2]
However, Khamenei is also the person in the Iranian government has says the more outlandish remarks; like waging a war on Israel and the US, wiping Israel off the face of the earth, and using something along the lines of Gods wrath on Israel, which many allude to the use of Nuclear weapons.
I also agree with your view on how we are really reduced to just using sanctions. No one wants a war, espically right now or in the inevitable future. With Iran supply so much to OPEC, it'd be hazardous to wage a war and have them stop supplying or the demand rise even higher. If say the UN got involved and enforced sanctions it might stall them a little, but until they can take care of those in the Iranian government from making stupid statements or going all extremists, this problem won't go away. And that's something only Iran can do, at least legally.
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However, Khamenei is also the person in the Iranian government has says the more outlandish remarks; like waging a war on Israel and the US, wiping Israel off the face of the earth, and using something along the lines of Gods wrath on Israel, which many allude to the use of Nuclear weapons.
which is why I think the only ones to carry out a direct military strike will be Israel themselves, which opens up a whole can of worms in itself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
but as for the US.. I guess they will have to rely on its support on Iranian terrorist groups (I forgot the name, but will find the name if requested).. which haven't been very active lately.
In the movie Syriana, they brought up one good point in regards to Iran: Will capitalism and trade assist in reforms/changes in Iran.. or will (like Clooney's character said it best:).. that the Clerics will continue to manipulate and control the inflow and still maintain their positions.. its pretty similar to what's going on in China too.. replace Clerics/Ayatollahs with the CCP.
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Putin definately has uranium fever
Anyways..the more we push them, the more extreme their government is going to get (the same government that has banned Western music by the way). But there's really no other way around it I think, they'll either compromise or crack under the pressure. All we need is another game of dictator grab ass or pin the tail on the WMD going on to make people love us even more
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which is why I think the only ones to carry out a direct military strike will be Israel themselves, which opens up a whole can of worms in itself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
but as for the US.. I guess they will have to rely on its support on Iranian terrorist groups (I forgot the name, but will find the name if requested).. which haven't been very active lately.
In the movie Syriana, they brought up one good point in regards to Iran: Will capitalism and trade assist in reforms/changes in Iran.. or will (like Clooney's character said it best:).. that the Clerics will continue to manipulate and control the inflow and still maintain their positions.. its pretty similar to what's going on in China too.. replace Clerics/Ayatollahs with the CCP.
Exactly, I'm more afraid of Israel than I am of Iran. Israel has been known in the past to act on it's own agenda, example the covert bombing by israli f-16's on Iranians nuclear power plant. Many of the politicians of the world condemned the attack but thanked Israel. I always draw the analogy that Israel is like a pitbull, a very angry pitbull and we are the dog handlers. We can only hold the leash for so long until it snaps. In no way am I calling israeli's Dogs....
If the US is regulated to support these iranian terrorist groups, do you think it might become a green beret mission. The US Green Berets primary function in an area, is to gain confidence and trust of the locals, supply and train these locals, and have the locals wage their own civil war. In almost every major war this tactic has been used.
I think capitalism and trade won't have too large of an affect on Iran, and if it does, it'll be very minute. Iran is very hard lined on westernism, so any encroachment of western culture and beliefs I believe will be squelched in Iran. China however, since it's a rising power house, is more succeptible(sp?) to capitalim because of it's long standing trade agreements and it's franchises it's been installing around the world.
I haven't seen the movie Syriana, would you recommend it?
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Israel has been known in the past to act on it's own agenda, example the covert bombing by israli f-16's on Iranians nuclear power plant.
Iraqi plant, not Iranian. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) In my middle eastern history class, for our final paper, we had to pick some event in the mid-east, find newspaper articles printed around the time of event using multiple newspapers.. and then analyze the world reaction. I did mines on Israeli's strike on Osirak. I can tell you this.. the US was pissed as hell, and alot of congressmen wanted to ban new sales of aircraft to Israel. I used New York Times, and some international ones such as those from Hong Kong, India and the UK.. they all condemned it. oddly the only newspaper that had articles supporting the strike was Asahi Shimbun (Japanese)..but then again..I guess Japan never did like Saddam.. they supported Iran too during the Iran-Iraq war.. and now sent in troops.
If the US is regulated to support these iranian terrorist groups, do you think it might become a green beret mission. The US Green Berets primary function in an area, is to gain confidence and trust of the locals, supply and train these locals, and have the locals wage their own civil war. In almost every major war this tactic has been used.
unfortunately I have no ideas or stances on this one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) . I'll probably have to ask around again. My info on what the US is doing on Iran, as well as Iran's military ability primarily come a guy named Tom Cooper, who writes books on Iranian aviation. While it may seem biased that my info primarily comes from him and his group.. everything he has said and claimed..ended up being true.. when many newspapers, analysts and even most military guys claimed something about Iran (such as unable to fly their F-14 fleet, and them exhausting their AIM-54 missiles).. he shot it down and provided accurate estimates on how many were flying and what the Iranians were manage to reproduce.. Years later, with the Internet being more common in Iran.. I've seen an influx of military fans from Iran, who all began posting very recent pics of Iranian weapons.. which included flying F-14s with AIM-54s, and an F-14 maintenance facility, one of the many things that were consistent with what Cooper's groups claimed. I'll def forward your question and see what replies I can get.
I think capitalism and trade won't have too large of an affect on Iran, and if it does, it'll be very minute. Iran is very hard lined on westernism, so any encroachment of western culture and beliefs I believe will be squelched in Iran. China however, since it's a rising power house, is more succeptible(sp?) to capitalim because of it's long standing trade agreements and it's franchises it's been installing around the world.
yeah, sometimes I feel that way too! However when I see videos, and pics of Iran these days.. you find numbers of arcades full of Japanese coin-ops (def saw several Sega machines)..large shopping centers, etc, and women beginning to reveal more.. the country feels alot more western and willing to accept western materialism, than one initially thinks. But hey.. the reverse could be true.. Singapore is financially well off and prosperous despite being a virtual dictatorship and single party rule for the longest time!
I haven't seen the movie Syriana, would you recommend it?
Hmm I know Papabear would def reccomend it!.. I thought the movie was a lil hard to follow as you see multiple lives being shown simultaneously. I thought it was worth it, simply because I saw Munich right after in a 2 for 1 deal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I honestly prefer Robert Baer's books like See No Evil, to which Syriana is derived from. Baer's books are his experience as a CIA operative in the Middle-East and South/Central Asia.. the movie loosely uses his themes and experiences, but isn't directly based on them.
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A great article from a former DoD official in regards to Iran's Nuclear ambitions..
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_398.shtml
includes analysis of their defense capabilities too, including pics and maps.
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Wow that is an awesome read. Thanks!
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JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel's defense minister hinted Saturday that the Jewish state is preparing for military action to stop Iran's nuclear program, but said international diplomacy must be the first course of action.
Israel will not be able to accept an Iranian nuclear capability and it must have the capability to defend itself, with all that that implies, and this we are preparing, Shaul Mofaz said.
His comments at an academic conference stopped short of overtly threatening a military strike but were likely to add to growing tensions with Iran.
Germany's defense minister said in an interview published Saturday that he is hopeful of a diplomatic solution to the impasse over Iran's nuclear program, but argued that all options should remain open.
Asked by the Bild am Sonntag weekly whether the threat of a military solution should remain in place, Franz Josef Jung was quoted as responding: Yes, we need all options.
French President Jacques Chirac said Thursday that France could respond with nuclear weapons against any state-sponsored terrorist attack.
Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said Saturday that Chirac's threats reflect the true intentions of nuclear nations, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported.
The French president uncovered the covert intentions of nuclear powers in using this lever (nuclear weapons) to determine political games, IRNA quoted Asefi as saying.
Israel long has identified Iran as its biggest threat and accuses Tehran of pursuing nuclear weapons. Iran says its atomic program is peaceful.
Iran broke U.N. seals at a uranium enrichment plant Jan. 10 and said it was resuming nuclear research after a 2 1/2-year freeze. Germany, France and Britain said two days later that talks aimed at halting Iran's nuclear progress were at a dead end and called for Iran's referral to the U.N. Security Council.
The International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, will meet Feb. 2 to discuss possible referral.
Israel's Mofaz said sanctions and international oversight of Iran's nuclear program stood as the correct policy at this time.
In Germany, Jung called himself confident that there will be a diplomatic solution in the case of Iran.
Israeli leaders have also repeatedly said they hope the crisis can be resolved through diplomacy, and they said any military action would have to be part of an international effort. They have denied having plans for a unilateral preventive strike.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has said Tehran might still agree to Moscow's offer to move its uranium enrichment program to Russia, a step backed by the United States and Europeans as a way to resolve the deadlock.
Israel's concerns about Iran have grown since the election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who said last year that Israel should be wiped off the map.
On Friday, Iran's Students News Agency reported Friday that Central Bank governor Ebrahim Sheibani said Iran had begun moving its foreign currency reserves from European banks and transferring them to an undisclosed location as protection against possible U.N. sanctions.
Sheibani backed away Saturday from his statement that the transfers were already underway, and Iran's Central Bank said there had been no change in its currency policy.
Estimates put Iranian funds in Europe at as much as $50 billion.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060122/D8F9EEN00.html
Iran says Israeli threats are a 'childish game'
Iran on Sunday said Israel would be making a fatal mistake should it resort to military action against Tehran's nuclear program and dismissed veiled threats from the Jewish state as a childish game.
On Saturday, Israel repeated its stand on the issue, saying it would not accept a nuclear Iran under any circumstances and was preparing for the possible failure of diplomatic efforts.
While Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz stopped short of an outright threat of military action, he said Israel must have the capability to defend itself...and this we are preparing.
Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said Israel was only trying to add to Western pressure on Iran to give up its nuclear program.
We consider Mofaz's comments a form of psychological warfare. Israel knows just how much of a fatal mistake it would be (to attack Iran), Asefi told reporters. This is just a childish game by Israel.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull
Answer:
Europe Doesn't Grasp Iranian Threat, Israeli Lawmaker Says
By Julie Stahl
CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief
January 23, 2006
Herzliya, Israel (CNSNews.com) - Europe has not yet grasped the magnitude of the Iranian nuclear threat, an Israeli lawmaker said following comments made by European diplomats about the long process of imposing sanctions on Iran.
The European Union called last week for an urgent meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency to press the case for sending the issue of Iranian nuclear development to the United Nations Security Council.
The U.S. and Israel have been pressing for a referral of Iran to the Security Council for more than year. The West suspects Iran of using its civilian nuclear program as a cover-up for developing atomic weapons. Iran claims its nuclear aspirations are purely peaceful.
But Israeli lawmaker Dr. Ephraim Sneh said that Europe does not yet understand that the time to act is now.
I'm afraid they don't yet understand the magnitude of the Iranian threat, said Sneh, a reserve brigadier-general who is part of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee.
They are still using the language of the past, Sneh told Cybercast News Service. There is no sense of urgency. I don't feel they understand the urgent need for action. The time of talking is over.
Sneh's comments came after European experts explained Europe's position on Iran at the annual Herzliya Conference on The Balance of Israel's National Security in Herzliya near Tel Aviv on Sunday
Long haul
Philippe Errera, deputy director of the Center for Analysis and Forecast at the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said that the process of dealing of Iran would be difficult and slow. It is only the beginning of a long confrontation, Errera said.
The EU-3 -- Britain, France and Germany -- declared two weeks ago that the process of negotiating with Iran, which they had begun in 2003, was finished.
The EU-3 had hoped to persuade Iran through negotiations to abandon its pursuit of uranium enrichment -- a process that could produce material for a nuclear bomb. But the EU-3 said there would be no more talking after Iran broke the U.N.-placed seals on nuclear facilities and announced it was resuming research into uranium enrichment two weeks ago.
Some experts had argued that the EU wasted precious time in stopping Iran's nuclear development by allowing Iran to continue covert activities without fear of repercussions during the talks.
But Errera said before judging that the EU's mission had been a failure, one should consider that the negotiating process did delay Iran's nuclear development by causing the Iranians to suspend their activities for two years.
There is also a clearer and more comprehensive view of the Iranian nuclear program now, and there has been an opportunity to broaden and strengthen the coalition against Iran, he added.
The Security Council must now become involved in order to strengthen the IAEA's authority, he said.
Sanctions
Michael Quinlan, senior consulting fellow on South Asia at the International Institute for Strategic Studies and guest lecturer for the Department of War Studies at Kings College London, ruled out military force against Iran as an option to stop the radical regime. And he said in order to have a long-term effect, there needed to be regime change in Iran.
In the case of imposing economic and political sanctions, they have to be carefully designed, said Quinlan, who has held senior positions in the British defense establishment and NATO.
The first level of sanctions could include measures such as a boycott of Iranian students, athletes and cultural exchanges, as well as trade embargoes, said Quinlan. But he admitted that Iran was not likely to bow to such pressures.
The second level would need to be much more severe, including economic sanctions that would also be hard on countries with which Iran has trade relations, said Quinlan.
At this level, the West might have to agree not to use force to try to change the Iranian regime and not to support those who would attempt to do so as part of a deal. A necessary element in a long-term bargain would be to ensure Iranian compliance through agreements, he said.
Aggressive action
But Sneh said aggressive action is needed now. The West needs to impose sanctions and start encouraging the Iranian opposition, giving them signs that if they topple the Iranian regime, the West would support them, said Sneh.
Practically speaking, the State Department and the European Union could remove the Iranian opposition from their lists of terrorist organizations because they have not carried out attacks for years, he suggested.
Sneh did not rule out military action.
Another Knesset member, Aryeh Eldad, said that the West must not continue to delay taking action against Iran.
It would be better if the U.S. and Europe took action rather than Israel because a Western intervention would be localized, while an Israeli intervention could drag the region into war, he said.
Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981 shortly before it was to become operational. Although the action was condemned worldwide at the time, the U.S. and its allies expressed their thanks for the move a decade later.
Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said that Israel would not accept Iran's nuclear armament. Speaking at the Herzliya conference on Saturday evening, Mofaz said that Israel must be ready to defend itself.
Herzliya conference
The annual Herzliya conference, organized by the Institute for Policy and Strategy (IPS) at the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya, is an international forum of top Israeli decision makers and international experts, organizers said.
This will be the first year since the conference was started six years ago that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is not speaking at the forum, said Uzi Arad, founding head of the IPS.
Sharon first hinted publicly at his unilateral disengagement policy in a speech at the conference in 2003, said Arad, who served in senior positions in Israel's Mossad. The outworking of that policy was the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and four West Bank settlements last summer.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus....R20060123b.html
Answer:
But Israeli lawmaker Dr. Ephraim Sneh said that Europe does not yet understand that the time to act is now.
I'm afraid they don't yet understand the magnitude of the Iranian threat, said Sneh, a reserve brigadier-general who is part of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee.
Dr. Sneh seems to be singling out Europe when the over all concensus is the same. But like mentioned in the other Iran thread.. Israel is apt to act more aggressively and unilaterally towards the Iran issue.. they've been really stepping on Washington's toes on this.
But the end result is the same.. as much as Sneh likes to single out Europe's lack of action.. but America isn't exactly active either despite having a harsher rhetoric. (and speaking of which, Europe too has stepped up their rhetoric, Chirac's Nuclear stance was an indirect shot at Iran
index.php?showtopic=31159#
not even the US went as far as using Nukes).
