Question:
I am frustrated.
I bought a pair of hand-antiqued shoes about a year ago. Having polished shoes for many years, I had never "polished" a pair of hand-antiqued shoes and hence, was hesistant to do anything at all to them. However, I knew that if I didn't take care of the leather, they would crack/split. So, all I did was use a leather conditioner on them and that kept the leather smooth and supple. The conditioner has no pigment in it at all so eventually, the color (hand-antiquing) began to get lighter and lighter. Since these shoes cost me a pretty penny, I was still hesistant to do anything to them, but they became so light, and the hand-antiquing so spotty that I had to do something. The leather itself, however, was in excellent shape because of all the conditioning I had done.
So, I scoured here and the AAAC forum and found several people who had hand-antiqued their own shoes, but I was never able to get the whole procedure as there were parts of the procedure missing. I also remember a poster advising someone NOT to do the work themselves and leave it to someone who knows what they're doing.
Well, I tried doing it myself and to make a long story short, wound up with a finish that looks pretty good. HOWEVER, here are the parts I am extremely unhappy about:
1. The finish doesn't look as good as the factory finish.
2. When I took the shoes out of the box when I first bought them, they were so smooth to the touch, almost buttery, and SHINY. Now, they are tacky to the touch. I use MELTONIAN cream. I even tried KIWI wax. Always tacky.
3. The finish looks decent when I'm done but as soon as I wear the shoes and take two steps, it cracks where my foot bends, on the top of the shoe. This NEVER happened with the original finish even when I first wore them out of the box up until I "worked" on them almost a year later. The worst part is that the cracks show the lighter color of the shoe underneath (i.e., the lighter original tanned color of the leather.) I tried using water/thin layers/etc. but they still crack. I did the alcohol thing and removed the layers of polish to no avail and reapplied very thin layers, still... The original finish would not crack where the foot bends and the color stayed consistent even on the bending areas; and it looked great. Now that is not the case.
It takes such a long time to care for these shoes that, despite really liking them when I first bought them, I am considering giving them up. I don't mind caring for my shoes, but these take up the majority of my "shoe polish" time and frankly, I'm getting burned out. Is there anyone in the Southern California area are where I can go for a PROFESSIONALY done job? I am even willing to send the shoes anywhere in the world, even the factory if I have to for a refinishing. I once sent footwear to the factory where it was made and I was not happy with the results. It seemed that the service was not done by the same people who make the new shoes. I have been unhappy with any polish job that I didn't do myself and am hesistant at letting anyone touch these shoes and risk damaging them.
Well, that's my sad little story. I am left in awe and amazement how the factory can get such a nice finish on the shoe and leave the leather so buttery SMOOTH. How do they do it? Does anyone know and would they care to share it? Where can I get it done, beside the factory (if even the factory can do it?) The antiquing must have come from the factory and not the tannery, right? Must I send the shoes to the factory every time I need a polish?
My humble thanks to anyone and everyone kind enough to respond.
Aficionado
P.S. Is there a way to wax my laces (beeswax?) myself or do I have to buy new ones each time the wax wears off?
Answer:
One year isn't long in the life of a quality shoe, so what your doing may be too aggressive. How often are you conditioning/waxing these shoes? I've never had the finish on a shoe wear noticably faster than the sole, so I wait for factory recrafting to restore the finish.
Answer:
Thanks for responding, Taxler.
The lotion/conditioner I use is pigment free. The antiquing finish is a finish that was placed on top of the original color of the hide from the tannery. The original color of the leather is a light tan. The antiquing is a gorgeous deep reddish/brown. I only applied conditioner about a once every 3 to 4 weeks over the course of a year or so ONLY to keep the leather soft and so it wouldn't crack.
This did not entirely remove the antiquing, however, it did noticeably lighten it to the point where the shoe's color looked "dull" and faded, even though the leather's condition was fantastic (i.e., soft, smooth, etc.)
Do you own any hand-antiqued shoes and, if so, how do you care for them?
All the best,
Aficionado
Answer:
I'm responding not because I'm an expert but rather to make sure I read other's opinions later on... however, I believe this is the difference between hand antiquing done at the tanning stage vs. applied later on during the finishing and polishing stage. How does one tell the difference before purchase or is it simply knowing the various techniques certain makers use?
Answer:
Names would be helpful. Who made the shoes?
You don't need to be so cautious about using tinted polish on antiqued shoes. The proportionate color variation will still be in evidence after you use say, Meltonian Cognac cream on Edward Green chestnut antique or Meltonian Saddle on EG acorn antique, etc. Properly brushed and buffed it shouldn't crack.
And the tackiness might result from the conditioner, particularly if done frequently. Lexol, for example, takes ages to really dry.
Answer:
what is the brand name of these shoes? do you have any before and after photos?
most premium shoes come in two finishes: 1) aniline-dyed leather (AE, santoni, i believe JL and vass) where the color dyeing is done at the tanning stage and is more or less permanent (especially in a black color). correct me if im wrong.
2) crust leather with hand antique (EG, santoni handmades, st. crispin, stefanobi, corthay, and many other high-end premium makes), usually a very light tan or pale brown leather color beneath and hand-finished with polishes, dyes and such and factory finished so that the color /finish will not crack and flake at the creases.
leather conditioner is used to condition/moisten/maintain the leather , but also used to clean leather as well, so it has a tendency to remove anything superficially applied to the surface , like perhaps a hand finish on crust leather.
i only apply conditioner on my aniline-dyed shoes like AE and ferragamo and such.
case in point, if i use leather conditioner solely for a period of time on my santoni fam, it WILL diminish the color over time.
an application of wax polish in a similar color would have been better to upkeep the original finish rather than just conditioner or even combo of conditioner and wax polish.
the 'hand antique flurries, mottles, and other inconsistencies' in the original finish that attributes to the beauty of the shoes will remain the same, it is the overall upkeep of the tone of color (however the tone of color may change very slightly) that wax polish will provide , and remember wax polish is not opaque , it is opaque in the tin due to the packness of it, but when applied it is actually slightly transparent.
the tackiness may come from your novice application of wax polish on the shoes. what i notice with my shoes, sometimes my application of polish will even come out making the leather surface slicker , smoother than originally before.
the tackiness may also come from too many layers, buildup, not sure how many times you tried over and over again, but if you saturate the surface , you will get a tackiness that will not buff out. you have to strip it to start from scratch.
the heavy layering of polish application (and mirror polishing) must only be done on the hard toebox end and the heel end. these two spots on the shoes are constant and never flex.
any flexing points or soft spots on the shoes should not take 'layers' of polish. just one very thing application and buff will do, to upkeep the leather only. do not apply 'layers' in hopes of darkening and changing the original color on the flex points . layering of wax polish is analogous to a 'candy shell' that will crack and flake at the flex points.
so , thus , if you find your flex points lightening up over time, all you can do is upkeep that light tone at that specific time of its life, by one simple wax application and buff. it is to upkeep and nourish . that is it. do not attempt to darken it.
this is the thing about hand-finished shoes and crust leathers, the point is the natural variable aging and lightening of the color on certain areas of the shoes is actually deemed as beautiful and desired as patina.
a highly reflective and rich color on toebox and heel with a lighter colored crease /flex areas and variables in between for the vamp and quarters and such, is considered patina and is more depthful and beautiful than a single straight-toned aniline dyed shoe imo.
..sheesh ..how much did i write??
Answer:
I'm surprised that shoe cream would lighten the color.
In my experience, shoe cream tends to make them darker over time.
Answer:
I put conditioner on a pair of hand antiqued Bontoni's with a tissue and noticed right away that the white tissue was turning brown, even if I barely rubbed it at all (just blotted it on)
some of the hand finishes are just not that durable
Thx for that advice, Shoe
Answer:
Yep. I used Light Brown Meltonian on my Burnt Pine EGs yesterday and it only served to darken the leather. Neutral is the safest bet.
Answer:
Some information about the shoes, and ideally pics, would be a help.
Answer:
They are Santoni FAMs.
I fear that I've destroyed the factory finish. I tried the alcohol process and stripped them down all the way to the light tan of the under leather. Getting the finish back has been frustrating. I know I'm using too much cream polish because they crack.
How does the factory put that finish on them anyway? I remember when I first got them, I "touched up" some small parts with Kiwi leather dye (brown). It looks exactly like the finish and it doesn't crack. It went away when I alcoholed them, but I'm thinking that I'm going to strip them back to the tan and then put that Kiwi leather dye. It looked great BUT I always hear it damages leather (I assume it is because of the solvent that is in it.) However, at this point, I do not care because the light tan color coming through is detracting from the look.
Here's the funny thing, after my many applications of the conditioner, the whole shoe got lighter EXCEPT FOR THE SMALL PARTS I TOUCHED UP WITH THE KIWI LEATHER DYE. So I think I will apply the dye, then condition the leather right away. I also don't know how wax polish will keep the leather conditioned properly if all that is in it is wax, and no conditioners.
It seems that with the hand-antiqued finishes, one must choose between sacrificing the leather versus sacrificing the finish; unless there is a way to do both.
In future, would it be okay to use a neutral CREAM polish (Meltonian) on a hand-antiqued shoe, or would even neutral cream polish destroy the finish as well? Would only neutral WAX polish do?
Thanks again for all the information and assistance.
All the best,
Aficionado
Answer:
I'm sorry to hear that. I think the moral is to treat shoes like this as you would any others--occasional conditioning and regular polishing. As ----shoe notes, polish won't be opaque when applied in the correct, small, quantities.
Answer:
Anybody ever have a similar problem with shoes dyed by a cobbler after the fact?
Answer:
The tackiness makes it sound like you are applying too much cream. Cream sits on the top of the leather so you do not want to apply several coats, it will look horrible.
The finish will always crack where the shoe flexes, because wax hardens when it dries. This happens even on good factory finishes. You need to apply little to no antiquing in those areas. Also, the longer you let the shoes sit after applying the polish or wax, the more durable the finish will be.
In any event, they are probaly never going to look exactly the way they did when they were new. That doesn't mean they can't look good, or even better though. That is the nature of antiquing leather, you kind of have to go with the flow. It is by nature an imperfect finish, but you can pretty much always get a good result in the end.
Anyone remember those antique blue Lattanzi's I listed a ways back? Those were solid black when I recieved them, with a horribly ugly buildup of wax polish. Unfortunately my attempt to strip the wax went straight through the finish leaving a large, matte, blue-grey spot in the shoe!! Talk about a heart attack. I went with the flow though, and they ended up beautiful.
Answer:
unbelieveable. show us those photos again Andrew.
